a world of NO

[gwynnega]

Like a whole lot of people on my FL and beyond, I've spent way too much time since last night fuming about Boob-gate. theferrett's just posted something of a "don't try this at home the next con" update, though unfortunately he also deleted 1000+ comments, many of which were cogent and valuable. (ETA: The comments are back now, but frozen.) A lot of good discussion and ranting on the subject can be found here and here, and, well, all over my FL.

This whole thing has brought back bad memories for me of dealing with twenty-something entitled creepy guys in the 1980s when I was a teenager. I really have nothing more to add but a world of no. And: I'm glad this kind of crap will not take place at WisCon...

Comments

[usedtobeljs]

It is so very much a world of no. :-(

[pours you tea and sends chocolate for recovery]

[gwynnega]

More tea sounds like an excellent idea... :-)

::hugs::

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

More tea is always a good idea!

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I cannot believe he did that. Holy fuck.

[gwynnega]

He just added a comment: "(On the other hand I'm loath to just condemn 1,300 comments to the dumpster bin. Some dialogues were had that were as much a part of the original post as anything else - some of the comments were pretty much all-stars in terms of coalescing attitudes that people agreed with. I'll have to think about how to balance my time with finding a way to do it, but I can't guarantee I will get them back. We'll have to see.)"

Hmmph.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

THE FUCK.

What is REALLY pissing me off is his "I can't read them all and I can't respond to them and I'm not comfortable ignoring them!" You're SILENCING DEBATE, dude. Fucking own up to it.

[gwynnega]

Yes, exactly.

First it was, "Oh, this wasn't about me--the women instigated it!" But now: "Lo, I decree you must not try this idea of mine elsewhere, and I'm packing up my toys and going home, and I get the last word!"

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

NOT ONLY THAT but the ORIGINAL POST which PROVOKED ALL THE DEBATE is STILL UP THERE. With comments off. God, that's....almost eloquent.

[gwynnega]

It says a lot, all right...

[gwynnega]

He brought the comments back (for the moment, anyway!).

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

O RLY

//goes off to snatch and grab what she can

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I'll touch his penis. With a fucking pair of scissors. Disgusting fuckwit.

[gwynnega]

Your icon could not be more appropriate!

There's also the burgeoning Open Source Swift Kick to the Balls Project...

[minim_calibre]

I came of age in the con scene. It's disheartening as hell to see nothing's changed in almost 20 years.

[gwynnega]

It seems that some guys are always reinventing the wheel where sexist behavior is concerned. It's an inexhaustible resource!

[cheesygirl.livejournal.com]

What a skeezy creepazoid. Just reading that post made me want to take a shower. Blearrrghhh!

[gwynnega]

I know. I haven't been this skeezed out in a long while...

[livii.livejournal.com]

This response helped get a lot of the nasty taste out of my mouth (though it still lingers). Will go look at your links - thanks.

[gwynnega]

That is an excellent response. My favorite bit was: "the notion that all situations and contexts ought to be thoroughly penetrated (yah) by the overtly sexual is deeply creepy", which is I think what has skeezed me out the most about this whole debacle.

my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

I just heard about this from huzzlewhat, and I'm just beyond mystified and appalled.

I'll say what I said in her journal. First, if a gang of people approached me and asked to touch my breasts? I'd be terrified. I'd say no, and then I'd probably run for it. Or I would be furious. I can't even imagine the *audacity* of such a move.

Entitlement is absolutely the word. Again, it's a manifestation of the idea that women's bodies belong to the public--and to the male public, specifically. There are just NO words.

I bet the frat boys who try to grope you in bar also think they're conferring a great honor upon you. (The last guy who did that to me got an elbow in the ribs for his trouble.)

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[gwynnega]

First, if a gang of people approached me and asked to touch my breasts? I'd be terrified. I'd say no, and then I'd probably run for it. Or I would be furious. I can't even imagine the *audacity* of such a move.

In a dark alley, I'd be terrified. At a con? I'd be hostile and dismissive, and I'd also be furious that they thought it acceptable to impose their agenda and their desire onto my con experience. Or, as springheel_jack said, "the notion that all situations and contexts ought to be thoroughly penetrated. . .by the overtly sexual is deeply creepy."

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

Well, I have issues, which is why I think I'd be frightened even at a con. But the more I think about it, the more I think rage would probably win out over fear in the moment. Afterward I'd probably be very shaken.

And given how much it sounds like this took off, I wonder how many women were harassed when they said "no."

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[gwynnega]

I can also imagine myself scanning the crowd for the entire remainder of the con, looking out for the creep(s) who wanted to grope me. That sure wouldn't make for a fun time...

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

Okay, and the more I think about this, and read through the comments, you know what's *really* pissing me off? More than anything?

SF/F has always been a "boys' club." Women have fought long and hard to get accepted there as something other than Leia in a gold bikini, and what happens? BOOBIES. Con-goers are reduced to BOOBIES.

Way to underscore the idea that Female is Other. We're the aliens.

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[gwynnega]

Yup. And all theferrett's long, self-congratulatory spiel amounts to is: "OMG boobies! I got to touch boobies!!"

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

On the fourth page of the comment thread, loligo suggests a brilliant change: make those who want to touch wear the buttons. theferrett protests this on the grounds that it's *passive* and wouldn't work as well.

He absolutely does not get it. He honestly cannot see the position that women are in. And what's worse, to me, is that zoethe doesn't get it, either. You'd think she would.

He's the absolute embodiment of the Nice Guy (tm). You know, the one who moans about how he can't get any b/c he's so "nice," and all the girls go for jerks, but he's only friends with women he wants to sleep with? He pretends to be enlightened, but ultimately, he's the worst of all of them. There seems to be a disproportionate number of those guys among the geek population, which is depressing, to say the least. At least the asshole guys in the general population are up front about their douchery.

Re: my icon has the hint of boobs. i think it's appropriate.

[gwynnega]

Yeah, I hate when these types couch their desire to impinge on women's boundaries in supposedly enlightened, revolutionary terms. Those poor, nice guys--so misunderstood! Yeah, right.